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	<title>Comments on: The Linux community&#8217;s mixed messages</title>
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	<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/the-linux-communitys-mixed-messages/</link>
	<description>Random musings from the radical feminist Christian antiracist left - some having to do with Ubuntu</description>
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		<title>By: ubuntucat</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/the-linux-communitys-mixed-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-8476</link>
		<dc:creator>ubuntucat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/?p=442#comment-8476</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I also warn people that switching over your whole operating system is not for the feint of heart and you can expect a frustrating transition, because that is also true. &lt;/i&gt;

In that case, it doesn&#039;t sound to me as if you&#039;re sending mixed messages at all. My issue is with people who practically beg Windows users to use Linux, hype up Linux to be this amazing thing and, in fact, &lt;i&gt;ridicule&lt;/i&gt; as sheep those who stick with Windows; and the minute a potential migrant to Linux complains about any difficulty, these same people (not you) are the first to say &quot;Hey, you don&#039;t like it? Go use Windows!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I also warn people that switching over your whole operating system is not for the feint of heart and you can expect a frustrating transition, because that is also true. </i></p>
<p>In that case, it doesn&#8217;t sound to me as if you&#8217;re sending mixed messages at all. My issue is with people who practically beg Windows users to use Linux, hype up Linux to be this amazing thing and, in fact, <i>ridicule</i> as sheep those who stick with Windows; and the minute a potential migrant to Linux complains about any difficulty, these same people (not you) are the first to say &#8220;Hey, you don&#8217;t like it? Go use Windows!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: quequotion</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/the-linux-communitys-mixed-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-8475</link>
		<dc:creator>quequotion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/?p=442#comment-8475</guid>
		<description>There are reasons for the mixed views. Windows may be a valid choice, but the vast majority of Windows users never actually made that choice. Nearly all home PCs on the market today still ship with Windows and a great many consumers are still oblivious that other operating systems exist. Once in a while such people discover Linux; telling these people to go back to Windows, although rude, is often much easier than retraining their entire way of thinking about computers.

Maybe I&#039;m a dreamer; maybe I&#039;m just a thief, but when people ask me about free alternatives I instruct them in the art of digital piracy. I have reasons for this that I feel are quite legitimate: 1. Media and software companies have been sucking the blood out of their customers for years. 2. The copyright + commercial licensing system cannot be used to protect data; it simply doesn&#039;t work because someone will always find a way to crack, decrypt, decompile, and reproduce whatever proprietary material becomes available online. I believe this system must and will change in the near future, besides there are plenty of people maintaining copyrights with open licenses and making a name for themselves if not a profit and there will always be other ways to make money.

You are right about alternatives though, and also about market share. We need to offer free alternatives that can beat their commercial competition. Market share is everything, and Window&#039;s market share is launchpad bug #1.

As for over-hyping Linux (by which I mean GNU/Linux based operating systems), I often tell people that it has come a long way and can do anything you can imagine a computer doing, often faster and with better security and more responsive support than Windows... because that&#039;s all true. I also warn people that switching over your whole operating system is not for the feint of heart and you can expect a frustrating transition, because that is also true. Indeed, there are still a few million bugs out there, but that&#039;s not any more than Windows and there&#039;s a heck of a lot more chance whatever bug you have in some Linux package will get reported, triaged, worked around, patched, and fixed within a reasonable time. Is that too much hype?

Telling people to get a refund is funny! J/K</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are reasons for the mixed views. Windows may be a valid choice, but the vast majority of Windows users never actually made that choice. Nearly all home PCs on the market today still ship with Windows and a great many consumers are still oblivious that other operating systems exist. Once in a while such people discover Linux; telling these people to go back to Windows, although rude, is often much easier than retraining their entire way of thinking about computers.</p>
<p>Maybe I&#8217;m a dreamer; maybe I&#8217;m just a thief, but when people ask me about free alternatives I instruct them in the art of digital piracy. I have reasons for this that I feel are quite legitimate: 1. Media and software companies have been sucking the blood out of their customers for years. 2. The copyright + commercial licensing system cannot be used to protect data; it simply doesn&#8217;t work because someone will always find a way to crack, decrypt, decompile, and reproduce whatever proprietary material becomes available online. I believe this system must and will change in the near future, besides there are plenty of people maintaining copyrights with open licenses and making a name for themselves if not a profit and there will always be other ways to make money.</p>
<p>You are right about alternatives though, and also about market share. We need to offer free alternatives that can beat their commercial competition. Market share is everything, and Window&#8217;s market share is launchpad bug #1.</p>
<p>As for over-hyping Linux (by which I mean GNU/Linux based operating systems), I often tell people that it has come a long way and can do anything you can imagine a computer doing, often faster and with better security and more responsive support than Windows&#8230; because that&#8217;s all true. I also warn people that switching over your whole operating system is not for the feint of heart and you can expect a frustrating transition, because that is also true. Indeed, there are still a few million bugs out there, but that&#8217;s not any more than Windows and there&#8217;s a heck of a lot more chance whatever bug you have in some Linux package will get reported, triaged, worked around, patched, and fixed within a reasonable time. Is that too much hype?</p>
<p>Telling people to get a refund is funny! J/K</p>
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		<title>By: bigbrovar</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/the-linux-communitys-mixed-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-3850</link>
		<dc:creator>bigbrovar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 06:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/?p=442#comment-3850</guid>
		<description>I quite agree with you.. but then that is why its a community, different views and perspectives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I quite agree with you.. but then that is why its a community, different views and perspectives.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Goldberg</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/the-linux-communitys-mixed-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-2370</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Goldberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 11:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/?p=442#comment-2370</guid>
		<description>Hi aysiu,

I see your points and pretty much agree on all of them.

One thing about alternative software:

On the Ubunu forums a lot of people don&#039;t know about some of the open source alternatives to the windows programs they are using.

Take utorrent. A lot of newcomers try to run that using Wine. I always suggest they at least try transmission or deluge (ktorrent) before they resort to Wine.

But I know what you mean.

Nice write up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi aysiu,</p>
<p>I see your points and pretty much agree on all of them.</p>
<p>One thing about alternative software:</p>
<p>On the Ubunu forums a lot of people don&#8217;t know about some of the open source alternatives to the windows programs they are using.</p>
<p>Take utorrent. A lot of newcomers try to run that using Wine. I always suggest they at least try transmission or deluge (ktorrent) before they resort to Wine.</p>
<p>But I know what you mean.</p>
<p>Nice write up.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/the-linux-communitys-mixed-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-2362</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/?p=442#comment-2362</guid>
		<description>I posted the link to my website article which makes many of the same points you do.  There is something just.. wrong about the whole vibe I get from the Ubuntu community and message that I couldn&#039;t quite put my finger on.  

Part of it is exemplified by the nastiness and almost-religious nature of the Ubuntu faithful.
Another part of it is the mixed messages that newcomers get.  Is Ubuntu supposed to be better than Windows or is it not?  If it is, then why don&#039;t simple things work?  If it&#039;s not, then why was I led to believe that it was?  Am I supposed to have to learn how to use Linux, or are things supposed to just &quot;work&quot;?  The last question is probably the most important one because that really is the basis of your philosophy.  

Very good post and my username is &quot;airjaw&quot; on ubuntuforums btw.  I came here due to your reply to my post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted the link to my website article which makes many of the same points you do.  There is something just.. wrong about the whole vibe I get from the Ubuntu community and message that I couldn&#8217;t quite put my finger on.  </p>
<p>Part of it is exemplified by the nastiness and almost-religious nature of the Ubuntu faithful.<br />
Another part of it is the mixed messages that newcomers get.  Is Ubuntu supposed to be better than Windows or is it not?  If it is, then why don&#8217;t simple things work?  If it&#8217;s not, then why was I led to believe that it was?  Am I supposed to have to learn how to use Linux, or are things supposed to just &#8220;work&#8221;?  The last question is probably the most important one because that really is the basis of your philosophy.  </p>
<p>Very good post and my username is &#8220;airjaw&#8221; on ubuntuforums btw.  I came here due to your reply to my post.</p>
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		<title>By: Jani Saksa</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/the-linux-communitys-mixed-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-1963</link>
		<dc:creator>Jani Saksa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/?p=442#comment-1963</guid>
		<description>About the legal issues on playing CSS protected DVD&#039;s in some countries... Well, bear with my shameless plug but as I just yesterday wrote quite long blog rant about the issue I would rather give a link to my blog post than write a couple lines here.

Basically I&#039;ll go through several claims, issues and try to explain why (in my opinion!) any laws banning using stuff like libdvdcss or DeCSS for *viewing* a legally purchased DVD should not be recognized as a &quot;real law&quot; by anybody. The software is out there and unless you do like me and tell in public websites that you are going to use them the law is one that cant be enforced on you. But make your own opinion, please :) So here:

Watching legal DVD’s on Linux claimed illegal:
http://salamanteri.homelinux.net/wordpress/2008/08/watching-legal-dvds-on-linux-claimed-illegal/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the legal issues on playing CSS protected DVD&#8217;s in some countries&#8230; Well, bear with my shameless plug but as I just yesterday wrote quite long blog rant about the issue I would rather give a link to my blog post than write a couple lines here.</p>
<p>Basically I&#8217;ll go through several claims, issues and try to explain why (in my opinion!) any laws banning using stuff like libdvdcss or DeCSS for *viewing* a legally purchased DVD should not be recognized as a &#8220;real law&#8221; by anybody. The software is out there and unless you do like me and tell in public websites that you are going to use them the law is one that cant be enforced on you. But make your own opinion, please :) So here:</p>
<p>Watching legal DVD’s on Linux claimed illegal:<br />
<a href="http://salamanteri.homelinux.net/wordpress/2008/08/watching-legal-dvds-on-linux-claimed-illegal/" rel="nofollow">http://salamanteri.homelinux.net/wordpress/2008/08/watching-legal-dvds-on-linux-claimed-illegal/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Toadbrooks</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/the-linux-communitys-mixed-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-1932</link>
		<dc:creator>Toadbrooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 18:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/?p=442#comment-1932</guid>
		<description>I just installed Linux for the first time on one of my laptops. I am fairly experienced with computers in general, but there is a distinct gap between &quot;Just Starting&quot; and &quot;Linux Expert&quot; that people seem to expect you to bridge before you are worth talking to. 

If we want to increase Linux marketshare, we are going to have to write articles, scripts, and give help to people to load the things they want to use. No one owns a computer for the operating system. There&#039;s little more useless than loading Linux and then realizing that your favorite applications will not run under it. Point? The choice of OS should be immaterial - it&#039;s the choice of APPLICATIONS that people care about.

Microsoft and HP forced me to go to Linux, and I hope this trend will continue. HP sold me a laptop and attempted to prevent me from taking Vista and their adware off. If I had been able to install Win2000 on it, I would not be writing this today. However, I&#039;m stubborn and no bastard is going to tell me what I HAVE to use and make me accept it. I may have used Windoze for years, but I have never been a sheep.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just installed Linux for the first time on one of my laptops. I am fairly experienced with computers in general, but there is a distinct gap between &#8220;Just Starting&#8221; and &#8220;Linux Expert&#8221; that people seem to expect you to bridge before you are worth talking to. </p>
<p>If we want to increase Linux marketshare, we are going to have to write articles, scripts, and give help to people to load the things they want to use. No one owns a computer for the operating system. There&#8217;s little more useless than loading Linux and then realizing that your favorite applications will not run under it. Point? The choice of OS should be immaterial &#8211; it&#8217;s the choice of APPLICATIONS that people care about.</p>
<p>Microsoft and HP forced me to go to Linux, and I hope this trend will continue. HP sold me a laptop and attempted to prevent me from taking Vista and their adware off. If I had been able to install Win2000 on it, I would not be writing this today. However, I&#8217;m stubborn and no bastard is going to tell me what I HAVE to use and make me accept it. I may have used Windoze for years, but I have never been a sheep.</p>
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		<title>By: ubuntucat</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/the-linux-communitys-mixed-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-1913</link>
		<dc:creator>ubuntucat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/?p=442#comment-1913</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re certainly correct that people shouldn&#039;t feel entitled to demand changes, but nor should &quot;Why don&#039;t you ask for a refund?&quot; be the standard response to every complaint or criticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re certainly correct that people shouldn&#8217;t feel entitled to demand changes, but nor should &#8220;Why don&#8217;t you ask for a refund?&#8221; be the standard response to every complaint or criticism.</p>
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		<title>By: kwilliam</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/the-linux-communitys-mixed-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-1912</link>
		<dc:creator>kwilliam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/?p=442#comment-1912</guid>
		<description>(Skip to #5 if you want the interesting comment.)

1) &quot;Windows is a legitimate choice.&quot; Windows may be needed to run all that software you need for your job, but... the OS itself is unnecessary. Frankly, I&#039;m waiting for Microsoft to port MS Office to Linux, say &quot;We won&#039;t make a Windows 8&quot;, and everybody jump on the POSIX-compatible bandwagon.

2) &quot;We do need real alternatives.&quot; Thank god for the Amazon MP3 Store, eh? (Too bad America&#039;s stupid copyright laws make it illegal to watch you&#039;re own movies.) And I readily admit there are no Linux alternatives to a lot of professional CADD, graphics, and movie editing applications out there.

3) &quot;Marketshare does matter.&quot; Sure, I&#039;d enjoy better hardware compatibility. As long as a massive shift in user base from power users to Joe ignorant users doesn&#039;t result in all my favorite software being castrated for &quot;simplicity&quot;.

4) &quot;Linux shouldn’t be overhyped.&quot; I couldn&#039;t agree more. But the occasionally sly, &quot;Bummer, you had to reboot your computer because Microsoft forced you to install an update while you were working? Funny, that never happens on my Linux box&quot; doesn&#039;t hurt. ;-)

5)&quot;Never tell people to ask for a refund.&quot; Perhaps because I&#039;m a hobbiest programmer, who plans on making a splash with some open source programs of his own, I feel more along the spirit of &quot;This software is provided AS IS without any guarantee it will make you happy.&quot; When you buy something, there is a somewhat implicit understanding that it will work, or you&#039;ll get your money back. That is, by buying the software, you are entitled to a program that fits your needs. People who download free software have no such entitlement. Now I have no problem with people complaining about software libre; in fact, I prefer it if people do so, preferably in the form of a bug report or a feature request. However, a lot of what I see are users who are spoiled by the high quality of a lot of open source software, and get the delusion they have a RIGHT to high quality free software. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO GET HIGH QUALITY FREE SOFTWARE. You can *ask* for bugs to be fixed, but you can&#039;t *demand* for them to be fixed. The developers and the community work as a team to create the software THEY want... if it&#039;s not what you want, you can curse your luck, but you&#039;ve got no case to demand the developers cater to you. Now most of the time, the developers are people who care about their users, and may be interested in helping you by fixing a bug or adding features you&#039;d like, but only if you approach in a polite manner.

The best example I can think of this is the hate mail Aaron Seigo got when KDE switched to a SUSE-like default menu in KDE 4.0, and the when support for desktop icons was dropped in favor of FolderView widgets in KDE 4.1. Issuing personal insults to developers, or dissing a piece of software without trying to understand it are inappropriate. They had no right to be rude or demand certain changes to the code of KDE. When &quot;users&quot; become &quot;abusers&quot; it is fair to remind those people the software is free, take it or leave it, and if you&#039;re going to be nasty about it, please do leave it.

(Now, certainly there are open source programs such as the Linux kernel, that are developed by paid professionals, and companies may have a case in demanding a certain experience from software that they have paid for the development of, but most users who flame about open source can&#039;t say they&#039;ve donated to a project or paid directly for it&#039;s development.)

&quot;One thing I noticed about linux users is that they seem to go through a “zealotry phase” for a few months, or as much as a year, before they settle down. Once they settle down, they (we) tend to feel just-a-little smug about being different from everyone else&quot;

Wow - that describes me perfectly. I didn&#039;t know that was the norm (given the rabid Linux fan-boys on Digg.)

As for Canonical selling hardware - that is a purely economic choice. Personally, I doubt that would be as profitable as simply making deals with Dell, HP and Asus directly. I think I&#039;ve rambled long enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Skip to #5 if you want the interesting comment.)</p>
<p>1) &#8220;Windows is a legitimate choice.&#8221; Windows may be needed to run all that software you need for your job, but&#8230; the OS itself is unnecessary. Frankly, I&#8217;m waiting for Microsoft to port MS Office to Linux, say &#8220;We won&#8217;t make a Windows 8&#8243;, and everybody jump on the POSIX-compatible bandwagon.</p>
<p>2) &#8220;We do need real alternatives.&#8221; Thank god for the Amazon MP3 Store, eh? (Too bad America&#8217;s stupid copyright laws make it illegal to watch you&#8217;re own movies.) And I readily admit there are no Linux alternatives to a lot of professional CADD, graphics, and movie editing applications out there.</p>
<p>3) &#8220;Marketshare does matter.&#8221; Sure, I&#8217;d enjoy better hardware compatibility. As long as a massive shift in user base from power users to Joe ignorant users doesn&#8217;t result in all my favorite software being castrated for &#8220;simplicity&#8221;.</p>
<p>4) &#8220;Linux shouldn’t be overhyped.&#8221; I couldn&#8217;t agree more. But the occasionally sly, &#8220;Bummer, you had to reboot your computer because Microsoft forced you to install an update while you were working? Funny, that never happens on my Linux box&#8221; doesn&#8217;t hurt. ;-)</p>
<p>5)&#8221;Never tell people to ask for a refund.&#8221; Perhaps because I&#8217;m a hobbiest programmer, who plans on making a splash with some open source programs of his own, I feel more along the spirit of &#8220;This software is provided AS IS without any guarantee it will make you happy.&#8221; When you buy something, there is a somewhat implicit understanding that it will work, or you&#8217;ll get your money back. That is, by buying the software, you are entitled to a program that fits your needs. People who download free software have no such entitlement. Now I have no problem with people complaining about software libre; in fact, I prefer it if people do so, preferably in the form of a bug report or a feature request. However, a lot of what I see are users who are spoiled by the high quality of a lot of open source software, and get the delusion they have a RIGHT to high quality free software. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO GET HIGH QUALITY FREE SOFTWARE. You can *ask* for bugs to be fixed, but you can&#8217;t *demand* for them to be fixed. The developers and the community work as a team to create the software THEY want&#8230; if it&#8217;s not what you want, you can curse your luck, but you&#8217;ve got no case to demand the developers cater to you. Now most of the time, the developers are people who care about their users, and may be interested in helping you by fixing a bug or adding features you&#8217;d like, but only if you approach in a polite manner.</p>
<p>The best example I can think of this is the hate mail Aaron Seigo got when KDE switched to a SUSE-like default menu in KDE 4.0, and the when support for desktop icons was dropped in favor of FolderView widgets in KDE 4.1. Issuing personal insults to developers, or dissing a piece of software without trying to understand it are inappropriate. They had no right to be rude or demand certain changes to the code of KDE. When &#8220;users&#8221; become &#8220;abusers&#8221; it is fair to remind those people the software is free, take it or leave it, and if you&#8217;re going to be nasty about it, please do leave it.</p>
<p>(Now, certainly there are open source programs such as the Linux kernel, that are developed by paid professionals, and companies may have a case in demanding a certain experience from software that they have paid for the development of, but most users who flame about open source can&#8217;t say they&#8217;ve donated to a project or paid directly for it&#8217;s development.)</p>
<p>&#8220;One thing I noticed about linux users is that they seem to go through a “zealotry phase” for a few months, or as much as a year, before they settle down. Once they settle down, they (we) tend to feel just-a-little smug about being different from everyone else&#8221;</p>
<p>Wow &#8211; that describes me perfectly. I didn&#8217;t know that was the norm (given the rabid Linux fan-boys on Digg.)</p>
<p>As for Canonical selling hardware &#8211; that is a purely economic choice. Personally, I doubt that would be as profitable as simply making deals with Dell, HP and Asus directly. I think I&#8217;ve rambled long enough.</p>
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		<title>By: RyanT</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/the-linux-communitys-mixed-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-1910</link>
		<dc:creator>RyanT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/?p=442#comment-1910</guid>
		<description>I find it odd how incredibly naive about the wider world the FOSS world can be. Things like selling guaranteed workable Ubuntu hardware would be a perfect move for the likes of Canonical considering it&#039;s position with Ubuntu as Linux for human beings, and what better way to make it simpler than to take a fair dosage of the uncertainty out by selling working hardware with it.

I talked about the whole &quot;It&#039;s fee, you can&#039;t complain&quot; thing on my own blog. It&#039;s an incredibly lame excuse and get out for when something doesn&#039;t work that shills any responsibility you have as soon as someone uses and relies on your software, and kind of goes against all the ideals you get told of it being a community, and just ends up being a place where excuses get passed around for everything that&#039;s broken to the point the community breaks down and the whole model goes to shit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it odd how incredibly naive about the wider world the FOSS world can be. Things like selling guaranteed workable Ubuntu hardware would be a perfect move for the likes of Canonical considering it&#8217;s position with Ubuntu as Linux for human beings, and what better way to make it simpler than to take a fair dosage of the uncertainty out by selling working hardware with it.</p>
<p>I talked about the whole &#8220;It&#8217;s fee, you can&#8217;t complain&#8221; thing on my own blog. It&#8217;s an incredibly lame excuse and get out for when something doesn&#8217;t work that shills any responsibility you have as soon as someone uses and relies on your software, and kind of goes against all the ideals you get told of it being a community, and just ends up being a place where excuses get passed around for everything that&#8217;s broken to the point the community breaks down and the whole model goes to shit.</p>
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