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	<title>Comments on: Obama won&#8217;t fix education in this country</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/obama-wont-fix-education-in-this-country/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/obama-wont-fix-education-in-this-country/</link>
	<description>Random musings from the radical feminist Christian antiracist left - some having to do with Ubuntu</description>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/obama-wont-fix-education-in-this-country/comment-page-1/#comment-6287</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 03:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1490#comment-6287</guid>
		<description>Loved this post. I, too, am very concerned about our education in America.  I have been out of High School only a short time, and remember very vividly many of the problems that aren&#039;t being dealt with.  It breaks my heart, because kids are our future.  If we can&#039;t educate them...well, we don&#039;t really have much hope, do we?

Blessings,
Emily</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loved this post. I, too, am very concerned about our education in America.  I have been out of High School only a short time, and remember very vividly many of the problems that aren&#8217;t being dealt with.  It breaks my heart, because kids are our future.  If we can&#8217;t educate them&#8230;well, we don&#8217;t really have much hope, do we?</p>
<p>Blessings,<br />
Emily</p>
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		<title>By: Count Shrimpula</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/obama-wont-fix-education-in-this-country/comment-page-1/#comment-6238</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Shrimpula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1490#comment-6238</guid>
		<description>&quot;When your tired of choosing between the conservative party and the really conservative party, you should support Ralph Nader. He’s got a great blog: http://www.nader.org/&quot;

Well unfortunately, this isn&#039;t the answer. Not least because it&#039;s just never going to happen. What we really need is election reform. Getting rid of the Electoral College is the big, obvious one. But I&#039;d also love to see us implement something like &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_voting&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Condorcet Voting&lt;/a&gt;. If we&#039;re convinced that people are too stupid/lazy for that (hint: they&#039;re not, actually, but it&#039;s an easy argument to make) I&#039;d be perfectly happy with &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Approval Voting&lt;/a&gt;. It&#039;s not perfect, but it&#039;s a fine alternative, and leagues better than what we have now. Then there wouldn&#039;t be a need for silly primaries, where candidates have to tack to the left or right, depending on their party, followed by an immediate dive back to the center for the general election. We&#039;d be able to plausibly choose between more than two people, and do so without potentially throwing the election to a less desirable option because you wanted to vote third party (e.g. Nader in 2000, Perot in &#039;92 and &#039;96).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When your tired of choosing between the conservative party and the really conservative party, you should support Ralph Nader. He’s got a great blog: <a href="http://www.nader.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.nader.org/</a>&#8221;</p>
<p>Well unfortunately, this isn&#8217;t the answer. Not least because it&#8217;s just never going to happen. What we really need is election reform. Getting rid of the Electoral College is the big, obvious one. But I&#8217;d also love to see us implement something like <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_voting" rel="nofollow">Condorcet Voting</a>. If we&#8217;re convinced that people are too stupid/lazy for that (hint: they&#8217;re not, actually, but it&#8217;s an easy argument to make) I&#8217;d be perfectly happy with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting" rel="nofollow">Approval Voting</a>. It&#8217;s not perfect, but it&#8217;s a fine alternative, and leagues better than what we have now. Then there wouldn&#8217;t be a need for silly primaries, where candidates have to tack to the left or right, depending on their party, followed by an immediate dive back to the center for the general election. We&#8217;d be able to plausibly choose between more than two people, and do so without potentially throwing the election to a less desirable option because you wanted to vote third party (e.g. Nader in 2000, Perot in &#8217;92 and &#8217;96).</p>
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		<title>By: Johan</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/obama-wont-fix-education-in-this-country/comment-page-1/#comment-6231</link>
		<dc:creator>Johan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 04:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1490#comment-6231</guid>
		<description>This may admittedly be &quot;out of the box&quot;, but that&#039;s where we are heading anyway (thank goodness!), like it or not.

Education is presently undergoing a paradigmatic change because humanity is, and that is why.

What do I mean by that?  Well, look around you and you will see ... and it will register with you that, yes, it actually IS happening around you because YOU are the one willing it to be so.

See where ICT is going with freeware and community building?  See how fed-up you are getting with hollow politics, shaky economics, ineffective law and order and bad, really bad schooling that we dare call &quot;education&quot;?

Planetary resources are going to hell, the great poor-rich divide is getting bigger and ... Well, it&#039;s all changing, thanks to you and your precious neighbor - all of them.

You may presently only be vaguely aware of it, but you can consciously assist the change and be of even greater help.

Just look at whatever your eye catches again, and then over gain until you see budding life there.  Right there.  And soon you will begin to see it everywhere.  Yes, and within you. Specifically within you for that is where Life originates.

I thank and salute you for your most unique and valuable contribution to get us all out of the box - the cold casket of despondency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This may admittedly be &#8220;out of the box&#8221;, but that&#8217;s where we are heading anyway (thank goodness!), like it or not.</p>
<p>Education is presently undergoing a paradigmatic change because humanity is, and that is why.</p>
<p>What do I mean by that?  Well, look around you and you will see &#8230; and it will register with you that, yes, it actually IS happening around you because YOU are the one willing it to be so.</p>
<p>See where ICT is going with freeware and community building?  See how fed-up you are getting with hollow politics, shaky economics, ineffective law and order and bad, really bad schooling that we dare call &#8220;education&#8221;?</p>
<p>Planetary resources are going to hell, the great poor-rich divide is getting bigger and &#8230; Well, it&#8217;s all changing, thanks to you and your precious neighbor &#8211; all of them.</p>
<p>You may presently only be vaguely aware of it, but you can consciously assist the change and be of even greater help.</p>
<p>Just look at whatever your eye catches again, and then over gain until you see budding life there.  Right there.  And soon you will begin to see it everywhere.  Yes, and within you. Specifically within you for that is where Life originates.</p>
<p>I thank and salute you for your most unique and valuable contribution to get us all out of the box &#8211; the cold casket of despondency.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/obama-wont-fix-education-in-this-country/comment-page-1/#comment-6223</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 18:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1490#comment-6223</guid>
		<description>relying on the government to fix anything is a very bad idea.  usually when they are done we are worse off then when they begain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>relying on the government to fix anything is a very bad idea.  usually when they are done we are worse off then when they begain.</p>
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		<title>By: nothanks</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/obama-wont-fix-education-in-this-country/comment-page-1/#comment-6219</link>
		<dc:creator>nothanks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1490#comment-6219</guid>
		<description>We live in a country where we don&#039;t have a choice who runs for president. So its no wonder we never get anything we want. Our &quot;choice&quot; in every election is between the bad choice and the terrible choice. The vast majority want better public schools and an end to the &quot;No child left behind&quot; disaster. But, the fact is, we aren&#039;t going to get it.

We also aren&#039;t going to get free health care even though every other first world country has it. We didn&#039;t see any second thoughts on corporate welfare bailouts. And we aren&#039;t seeing an end to our wars and illegal prisons.

Heck this congress is not even in favor gun control. Obama winning will have a wonderful impact on civil rights, but I&#039;m afraid we won&#039;t be getting much else from these &quot;democrats&quot;

When your tired of choosing between the conservative party and the really conservative party, you should support Ralph Nader. He&#039;s got a great blog: http://www.nader.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We live in a country where we don&#8217;t have a choice who runs for president. So its no wonder we never get anything we want. Our &#8220;choice&#8221; in every election is between the bad choice and the terrible choice. The vast majority want better public schools and an end to the &#8220;No child left behind&#8221; disaster. But, the fact is, we aren&#8217;t going to get it.</p>
<p>We also aren&#8217;t going to get free health care even though every other first world country has it. We didn&#8217;t see any second thoughts on corporate welfare bailouts. And we aren&#8217;t seeing an end to our wars and illegal prisons.</p>
<p>Heck this congress is not even in favor gun control. Obama winning will have a wonderful impact on civil rights, but I&#8217;m afraid we won&#8217;t be getting much else from these &#8220;democrats&#8221;</p>
<p>When your tired of choosing between the conservative party and the really conservative party, you should support Ralph Nader. He&#8217;s got a great blog: <a href="http://www.nader.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.nader.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chauncellor</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/obama-wont-fix-education-in-this-country/comment-page-1/#comment-6218</link>
		<dc:creator>Chauncellor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 19:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1490#comment-6218</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty genuinely frightened about the US&#039;s educational system, myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty genuinely frightened about the US&#8217;s educational system, myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Count Shrimpula</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/obama-wont-fix-education-in-this-country/comment-page-1/#comment-6209</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Shrimpula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 22:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1490#comment-6209</guid>
		<description>Eh, well I&#039;m in the same boat as you in that Obama isn&#039;t my ideal candidate, but I definitely felt he was the best of the two-person field we had to choose from in the election. So I&#039;m not an unabashed supporter of everything he does either. That said, &quot;single most important&quot; is still &quot;most important&quot;. You can quibble with that and say you think, for example, that there are multiple things that are of &lt;i&gt;equal&lt;/i&gt; importance, but I think I&#039;d disagree with that. There are lots of important things that go into it, including all the stuff you mentioned, but if the teacher isn&#039;t the &lt;i&gt;most&lt;/i&gt; important thing in there, I don&#039;t know what is. Still, I think it&#039;s unfair to portray that as him saying it&#039;s the &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; important thing.

Even as the most important thing, though, that doesn&#039;t mean you can throw everything else against them and still expect them to come out on top. Say all the factors are the same except the mediocre teacher from your example has a class of 15 students, and the great teacher has 25. Might the great teacher be able to overcome that and do a better job? Sure. Might they be able to overcome having a less well-equipped classroom? Definitely. Might they be able to overcome both of those at once? Maybe not. I dunno, I just don&#039;t think that part of the speech was bad. I&#039;d be much more inclined to get on him for negative feedback loop of poor schools don&#039;t win as much funding, which means they do poorly, which means they don&#039;t win as much funding, which means they do poorly, etc.

As far as the merit-based pay, I&#039;m absolutely with you on those concerns, which I why I present it with such a strong caveat. Maybe we can&#039;t make it work in a way that isn&#039;t damaging. I think we can, if we value the input of the people it will affect. But I guess it&#039;s more fair to say I support it in the abstract, and I&#039;d strongly support some sort of commission to work with the teachers and their unions to come up with something that would work, and work well. But I don&#039;t know that it can be made to work without involving the teachers. Like I said, my girlfriend is a teacher. I&#039;ve seen how it works, you don&#039;t have to jump up to politicians. If you just jump up to the people one step above them making the curriculum, they&#039;re so out of touch it&#039;s ludicrous, and they don&#039;t give a damn about getting input from the teachers who actually see the kids every single day. That&#039;s just silly, to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh, well I&#8217;m in the same boat as you in that Obama isn&#8217;t my ideal candidate, but I definitely felt he was the best of the two-person field we had to choose from in the election. So I&#8217;m not an unabashed supporter of everything he does either. That said, &#8220;single most important&#8221; is still &#8220;most important&#8221;. You can quibble with that and say you think, for example, that there are multiple things that are of <i>equal</i> importance, but I think I&#8217;d disagree with that. There are lots of important things that go into it, including all the stuff you mentioned, but if the teacher isn&#8217;t the <i>most</i> important thing in there, I don&#8217;t know what is. Still, I think it&#8217;s unfair to portray that as him saying it&#8217;s the <i>only</i> important thing.</p>
<p>Even as the most important thing, though, that doesn&#8217;t mean you can throw everything else against them and still expect them to come out on top. Say all the factors are the same except the mediocre teacher from your example has a class of 15 students, and the great teacher has 25. Might the great teacher be able to overcome that and do a better job? Sure. Might they be able to overcome having a less well-equipped classroom? Definitely. Might they be able to overcome both of those at once? Maybe not. I dunno, I just don&#8217;t think that part of the speech was bad. I&#8217;d be much more inclined to get on him for negative feedback loop of poor schools don&#8217;t win as much funding, which means they do poorly, which means they don&#8217;t win as much funding, which means they do poorly, etc.</p>
<p>As far as the merit-based pay, I&#8217;m absolutely with you on those concerns, which I why I present it with such a strong caveat. Maybe we can&#8217;t make it work in a way that isn&#8217;t damaging. I think we can, if we value the input of the people it will affect. But I guess it&#8217;s more fair to say I support it in the abstract, and I&#8217;d strongly support some sort of commission to work with the teachers and their unions to come up with something that would work, and work well. But I don&#8217;t know that it can be made to work without involving the teachers. Like I said, my girlfriend is a teacher. I&#8217;ve seen how it works, you don&#8217;t have to jump up to politicians. If you just jump up to the people one step above them making the curriculum, they&#8217;re so out of touch it&#8217;s ludicrous, and they don&#8217;t give a damn about getting input from the teachers who actually see the kids every single day. That&#8217;s just silly, to me.</p>
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		<title>By: matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/obama-wont-fix-education-in-this-country/comment-page-1/#comment-6208</link>
		<dc:creator>matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 22:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1490#comment-6208</guid>
		<description>My wife is a teacher. I agree with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife is a teacher. I agree with you.</p>
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		<title>By: ubuntucat</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/obama-wont-fix-education-in-this-country/comment-page-1/#comment-6207</link>
		<dc:creator>ubuntucat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1490#comment-6207</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re giving Obama too much of the benefit of the doubt here. He didn&#039;t say the teacher is the most important factor or one of the most important factors. He said it&#039;s the &lt;i&gt;single most important factor&lt;/i&gt;. And my point is that there isn&#039;t a single most important factor. There are many important factors, and having a great teacher at the front of the room is only one of many of equal importance.

I&#039;m definitely against the pay-for-performance model. You can tell when a salesperson works on commission, and you also know the corporate culture can be toxic. If you tie performance to pay in education, then schools become more and more like corporations, and you take more of the goodness out of schools and put in more of a cutthroat culture.

And that&#039;s not even mentioning the difficulty in an outside institution (like the federal government) assessing which teachers perform better.

&lt;i&gt;Maybe crowdsource it to the teachers, the people on the front lines, and ask them what might be a fair way to be evaluated.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;d love that, actually. When I was a teacher, I thought it was lame that politicians listened to educational theorists and high-level administrators instead of actually talking to teachers and asking the teachers what&#039;s needed to make things better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re giving Obama too much of the benefit of the doubt here. He didn&#8217;t say the teacher is the most important factor or one of the most important factors. He said it&#8217;s the <i>single most important factor</i>. And my point is that there isn&#8217;t a single most important factor. There are many important factors, and having a great teacher at the front of the room is only one of many of equal importance.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m definitely against the pay-for-performance model. You can tell when a salesperson works on commission, and you also know the corporate culture can be toxic. If you tie performance to pay in education, then schools become more and more like corporations, and you take more of the goodness out of schools and put in more of a cutthroat culture.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s not even mentioning the difficulty in an outside institution (like the federal government) assessing which teachers perform better.</p>
<p><i>Maybe crowdsource it to the teachers, the people on the front lines, and ask them what might be a fair way to be evaluated.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;d love that, actually. When I was a teacher, I thought it was lame that politicians listened to educational theorists and high-level administrators instead of actually talking to teachers and asking the teachers what&#8217;s needed to make things better.</p>
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		<title>By: Count Shrimpula</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/obama-wont-fix-education-in-this-country/comment-page-1/#comment-6206</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Shrimpula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1490#comment-6206</guid>
		<description>&quot;    From the moment a student enters a school, the single most important factor in their success is the person in front of the classroom.

Really? So if I take the best teacher in the country, put her in front of a class of 30 students who have varying abilities (most of which on the low end), who all have behavioral or psychological problems, some of whom have learning disabilities of varying types; give that teacher no textbooks (or ones falling apart), no pencils, no computers, a room that’s constantly a mess; create a culture of low achievement and high grade inflation where every challenge to authority must be disciplined immediately or else the students will run amok—somehow that teacher is going to do better than a mediocre teacher with a class size of 14 students who all get outside tutoring, parental support, computers, textbooks, pencils, a clean building, a school culture of students being treated like responsible adults and, for the most part, living up to that expectation?&quot;

Well this seems a bit of an overreaction. He said it was the &lt;i&gt;most&lt;/i&gt; important factor, not the &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; important factor.

Other than that, pretty good stuff. My girlfriend is a teacher, so it&#039;s something I&#039;ve thought and talked a lot about as well.

I like the idea of merit-based pay for teachers, because the amazing ones definitely do deserve to be recognized and rewarded over the crappy ones that don&#039;t care. But I also recognize that that&#039;s incredibly difficult to evaluate. Using something like standardized testing just leads to teaching to the test and/or cheating. If I were in the position to do something about it, I&#039;d love to pitch the idea to the head of the NEA or whoever, make it clear that we aren&#039;t going to implement something unfair, and ask for their help. Maybe crowdsource it to the teachers, the people on the front lines, and ask &lt;i&gt;them&lt;/i&gt; what might be a fair way to be evaluated. I think we could come up with a way to do so that&#039;s fair, it&#039;s just not something that&#039;s immediately obvious or easy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221;    From the moment a student enters a school, the single most important factor in their success is the person in front of the classroom.</p>
<p>Really? So if I take the best teacher in the country, put her in front of a class of 30 students who have varying abilities (most of which on the low end), who all have behavioral or psychological problems, some of whom have learning disabilities of varying types; give that teacher no textbooks (or ones falling apart), no pencils, no computers, a room that’s constantly a mess; create a culture of low achievement and high grade inflation where every challenge to authority must be disciplined immediately or else the students will run amok—somehow that teacher is going to do better than a mediocre teacher with a class size of 14 students who all get outside tutoring, parental support, computers, textbooks, pencils, a clean building, a school culture of students being treated like responsible adults and, for the most part, living up to that expectation?&#8221;</p>
<p>Well this seems a bit of an overreaction. He said it was the <i>most</i> important factor, not the <i>only</i> important factor.</p>
<p>Other than that, pretty good stuff. My girlfriend is a teacher, so it&#8217;s something I&#8217;ve thought and talked a lot about as well.</p>
<p>I like the idea of merit-based pay for teachers, because the amazing ones definitely do deserve to be recognized and rewarded over the crappy ones that don&#8217;t care. But I also recognize that that&#8217;s incredibly difficult to evaluate. Using something like standardized testing just leads to teaching to the test and/or cheating. If I were in the position to do something about it, I&#8217;d love to pitch the idea to the head of the NEA or whoever, make it clear that we aren&#8217;t going to implement something unfair, and ask for their help. Maybe crowdsource it to the teachers, the people on the front lines, and ask <i>them</i> what might be a fair way to be evaluated. I think we could come up with a way to do so that&#8217;s fair, it&#8217;s just not something that&#8217;s immediately obvious or easy.</p>
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