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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s not always blaming the victim</title>
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	<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/its-not-always-blaming-the-victim/</link>
	<description>Random musings from the radical feminist Christian antiracist left - some having to do with Ubuntu</description>
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		<title>By: Jyrhino</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/its-not-always-blaming-the-victim/comment-page-1/#comment-11481</link>
		<dc:creator>Jyrhino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1193#comment-11481</guid>
		<description>Dawn, I think you miss the point; if you can&#039;t swim, stay away from the water. Whether you fell or jumped in doesn&#039;t matter, being that close and unable to swim you were increasing your change of drowning by 1000 fold. As for drowning vs being killed, who is doing the action? The water isn&#039;t killing you, you are killing yourself, you can choose to do things, water has no will, just basic properties. Saying &#039;the water is killing me&#039; is giving the water purpose that it can&#039;t have.

Language is only the symptom of the mentality behind the speech. Rape is based on inequality and on a lack of respect for the other being. How many times are guys raped at fraternity events? More than we hear I&#039;m sure but a whole lot less than females. A man will percieve another as equal and therefore it&#039;s not ok to try and rape them, but we, as society, devalue women so much, that often with alcohol, a womans personhood disappears and they become tools to be used, not people to be cared for.

Only when women are actually treated as equals in word and act, will rape start to be looked down upon and seen for what it is, violence against a person because that person appears to be weak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dawn, I think you miss the point; if you can&#8217;t swim, stay away from the water. Whether you fell or jumped in doesn&#8217;t matter, being that close and unable to swim you were increasing your change of drowning by 1000 fold. As for drowning vs being killed, who is doing the action? The water isn&#8217;t killing you, you are killing yourself, you can choose to do things, water has no will, just basic properties. Saying &#8216;the water is killing me&#8217; is giving the water purpose that it can&#8217;t have.</p>
<p>Language is only the symptom of the mentality behind the speech. Rape is based on inequality and on a lack of respect for the other being. How many times are guys raped at fraternity events? More than we hear I&#8217;m sure but a whole lot less than females. A man will percieve another as equal and therefore it&#8217;s not ok to try and rape them, but we, as society, devalue women so much, that often with alcohol, a womans personhood disappears and they become tools to be used, not people to be cared for.</p>
<p>Only when women are actually treated as equals in word and act, will rape start to be looked down upon and seen for what it is, violence against a person because that person appears to be weak.</p>
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		<title>By: Dawn</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/its-not-always-blaming-the-victim/comment-page-1/#comment-4978</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 10:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1193#comment-4978</guid>
		<description>Ok, so since these ladies &quot;put themselves&quot; in that position, then am I right to also blame &quot;Caucasian culture who introduced alcohol, pedophilia, sadism, etc.&quot; for their true behavior? Because I know many men who have been there and fought for justice for me and other victims and survivors. To me I see a partial liability in language...and the ignorance of this society.

Example...Modern English writes, &quot;I am drowning&quot;. Other cultures translation of their language(s) is, &quot;The water is killing me.&quot; Are those drowning, truly wishing to drown? Not me...were is not for the water, I would not be dying...Whether I fell in or jumped in.

The survivor/victim of rape faces the same...the ignorance &quot;civilizaion&quot; defies me sometimes.

Dawn</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, so since these ladies &#8220;put themselves&#8221; in that position, then am I right to also blame &#8220;Caucasian culture who introduced alcohol, pedophilia, sadism, etc.&#8221; for their true behavior? Because I know many men who have been there and fought for justice for me and other victims and survivors. To me I see a partial liability in language&#8230;and the ignorance of this society.</p>
<p>Example&#8230;Modern English writes, &#8220;I am drowning&#8221;. Other cultures translation of their language(s) is, &#8220;The water is killing me.&#8221; Are those drowning, truly wishing to drown? Not me&#8230;were is not for the water, I would not be dying&#8230;Whether I fell in or jumped in.</p>
<p>The survivor/victim of rape faces the same&#8230;the ignorance &#8220;civilizaion&#8221; defies me sometimes.</p>
<p>Dawn</p>
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		<title>By: ubuntucat</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/its-not-always-blaming-the-victim/comment-page-1/#comment-4469</link>
		<dc:creator>ubuntucat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1193#comment-4469</guid>
		<description>I agree wholeheartedly with you, L. It&#039;s a matter of emphasis, certainly.

What Steve Ward said in his follow-up email is technically true. But it is also overstated. I just didn&#039;t like that some people appeared to be discounting entirely the truth of what he was saying instead of&#8212;as you have done eloquently in your comment&#8212;counteracting the overemphasis on what women should or should not be doing.

Of course, part of the problem with telling rapists to avoid situations in which they&#039;re more likely to rape is that rapists don&#039;t really care to avoid situations in which they might rape... they tend to want to rape. They just want to avoid situations in which they&#039;ll be caught raping or be easily convicted of raping.

You&#039;re absolutely right, though. Women know the risks, so I don&#039;t know why people waste their time saying &quot;You should be doing this&quot; or &quot;You shouldn&#039;t be doing that.&quot; My point was simply that whether you are at fault or not, you &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; affect the likelihood of something bad happening to you. It&#039;s a game we all play in some way or other. If you&#039;re a &quot;bubble boy&quot; and just avoid all contact, all risk, then you&#039;re not really living. But if you take all risks you can, you&#039;re going to end up dead, injured, or taken advantage of.

And as I noted through examples not directly related to rape (robbery, murderous road rage), this truth is something that extends beyond sexual assault.

I think it&#039;s a shame that we have a victim-blaming culture when it comes to rape victims. Society will often ask what a woman was wearing or how many men she&#039;s slept with. But if someone is mugged for money, no one cares what that person was wearing or how often she had made philanthropic donations in the past.

I just want to be clear that the real problem here is one of emphasis, not of statement of fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree wholeheartedly with you, L. It&#8217;s a matter of emphasis, certainly.</p>
<p>What Steve Ward said in his follow-up email is technically true. But it is also overstated. I just didn&#8217;t like that some people appeared to be discounting entirely the truth of what he was saying instead of&mdash;as you have done eloquently in your comment&mdash;counteracting the overemphasis on what women should or should not be doing.</p>
<p>Of course, part of the problem with telling rapists to avoid situations in which they&#8217;re more likely to rape is that rapists don&#8217;t really care to avoid situations in which they might rape&#8230; they tend to want to rape. They just want to avoid situations in which they&#8217;ll be caught raping or be easily convicted of raping.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re absolutely right, though. Women know the risks, so I don&#8217;t know why people waste their time saying &#8220;You should be doing this&#8221; or &#8220;You shouldn&#8217;t be doing that.&#8221; My point was simply that whether you are at fault or not, you <i>can</i> affect the likelihood of something bad happening to you. It&#8217;s a game we all play in some way or other. If you&#8217;re a &#8220;bubble boy&#8221; and just avoid all contact, all risk, then you&#8217;re not really living. But if you take all risks you can, you&#8217;re going to end up dead, injured, or taken advantage of.</p>
<p>And as I noted through examples not directly related to rape (robbery, murderous road rage), this truth is something that extends beyond sexual assault.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s a shame that we have a victim-blaming culture when it comes to rape victims. Society will often ask what a woman was wearing or how many men she&#8217;s slept with. But if someone is mugged for money, no one cares what that person was wearing or how often she had made philanthropic donations in the past.</p>
<p>I just want to be clear that the real problem here is one of emphasis, not of statement of fact.</p>
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		<title>By: L</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/its-not-always-blaming-the-victim/comment-page-1/#comment-4466</link>
		<dc:creator>L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 20:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1193#comment-4466</guid>
		<description>Sure, yeah, there are certainly locations that signal a higher chance of getting raped.  Rapists often ply their victims with alcohol, so not drinking or not attending bars/parties might be one way of lowering one&#039;s chances of getting raped.  But people know this; women, in particular, know this.  The problem is that hardly &lt;i&gt;anyone&lt;/i&gt; talks about how guys should not rape. No one talks about places men should avoid because they might be more likely to commit sexual assault.  They aren&#039;t told to stop drinking or attending parties because their chance of raping another person is much higher. It&#039;s always, always, always about how women should change &lt;i&gt;their&lt;/i&gt; behavior in order to &quot;prevent&quot; &quot;putting themselves in positions&quot; where they are &quot;more likely&quot; to be raped.  The more often we talk about how women can and should change their behavior in order not to be raped, the less attention we pay to the people actually doing the raping.  I realize we can talk about both -- changing rape culture is not a zero-sum game -- but right now, the vast majority of the conversation about rape is about how women can change their behavior, their lives, their interests, etc. in order not to be raped.

Besides all that, all this talk about how women can prevent rape is hinged on the myth that rape is a crime committed in dark alleyways at night some unknown assailant.  Many rapes happen this way, but the majority of reported and unreported rapes/sexual assaults are committed by people known to the victim: dates, partners, spouses, family members, etc.  Should women never drink? Never leave the house? Never interact with other human beings just in case they know and might become the target of a rapist? (Chances are that we all do, so this may not be that far off the rocker.)

So, yeah, I see where you&#039;re coming from and walking the line between self-preserving caution and living a life you enjoy is difficult.  I just think that spending so much time warning women not to do this or that OR ELSE is a waste of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, yeah, there are certainly locations that signal a higher chance of getting raped.  Rapists often ply their victims with alcohol, so not drinking or not attending bars/parties might be one way of lowering one&#8217;s chances of getting raped.  But people know this; women, in particular, know this.  The problem is that hardly <i>anyone</i> talks about how guys should not rape. No one talks about places men should avoid because they might be more likely to commit sexual assault.  They aren&#8217;t told to stop drinking or attending parties because their chance of raping another person is much higher. It&#8217;s always, always, always about how women should change <i>their</i> behavior in order to &#8220;prevent&#8221; &#8220;putting themselves in positions&#8221; where they are &#8220;more likely&#8221; to be raped.  The more often we talk about how women can and should change their behavior in order not to be raped, the less attention we pay to the people actually doing the raping.  I realize we can talk about both &#8212; changing rape culture is not a zero-sum game &#8212; but right now, the vast majority of the conversation about rape is about how women can change their behavior, their lives, their interests, etc. in order not to be raped.</p>
<p>Besides all that, all this talk about how women can prevent rape is hinged on the myth that rape is a crime committed in dark alleyways at night some unknown assailant.  Many rapes happen this way, but the majority of reported and unreported rapes/sexual assaults are committed by people known to the victim: dates, partners, spouses, family members, etc.  Should women never drink? Never leave the house? Never interact with other human beings just in case they know and might become the target of a rapist? (Chances are that we all do, so this may not be that far off the rocker.)</p>
<p>So, yeah, I see where you&#8217;re coming from and walking the line between self-preserving caution and living a life you enjoy is difficult.  I just think that spending so much time warning women not to do this or that OR ELSE is a waste of time.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/its-not-always-blaming-the-victim/comment-page-1/#comment-4461</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/?p=1193#comment-4461</guid>
		<description>That was an insightful post. Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was an insightful post. Thank you!</p>
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